Log In | Register
2 Votes
3 Comments
Are the Jews an invented people?, by Eric Rouleau
News Type: Other — Seeded on Tue May 13, 2008 8:51 PM EDT
Article Source: Le Monde diplomatiqueadvertisement
How the Jewish people were invented, from the Bible to Zionism is the provocative title of the most recent book to be published in Israel by Shlomo Sand, a professor at Tel Aviv University (forthcoming in French with Fayard). Sand, one of the "new" historians, attacks what he calls the myth that the Jews are the descendants of the Hebrews, exiled from the kingdom of Judaea. He has attempted to show that the Jews are neither a race nor a nation, but ancient pagans – in the main Berbers from North Africa, Arabs from the south of Arabia, and Turks from the Khazar empire – who converted to Judaism between the fourth and eighth centuries CE. According to Sand, the Palestinians are probably descended from Hebrews who embraced Islam or Christianity.
Published to:
- hircus's Column, All of Newsvine
- Groups: Ethnoscapes, Eurabia, Historical Vine
- Regions: none
- Public Discussion (3)
- Ethnoscapes
- Eurabia
- Historical Vine
What's this?
Who's leading the conversation?
This visualization below allows you to see the impact that each user
has on the current conversation.
The top row contains the group of users who have had the most impact, the 2nd
row the group of users who have had the 2nd most impact (et cetera).
Users with similar impact are grouped together, and the average score of the group
is shown to the left of the group. The author of the article is also shown on the
left, in their corresponding group.
Each user's score is based on the number of comments the user has made plus the
number of votes their comments have received. The scores are calculated relative
one another, so while their absolute value is not particularly important, their
relative difference does indicate a larger difference in impact on the conversation.
1.6
{"commentId":1797292,"authorDomain":"hircus"}
Bearing in mind that Le Diplo is a left-wing publication, and thus slightly more pro-Palestinian than the Western mainstream, it is quite a curious book. The French edition is not out yet, and I've heard nothing about plans for an English edition, so I guess it might be time to brush up on my French.
Just as the British population is probably substantially Celtic, even after the Anglo-Saxon, Danish and Norman invasions, it would make sense that the population of Ottoman Palestine is still substantially Jewish in origin. It all depends on how much the local population is decimated during the Crusades, of course, as well as hinging on Sand's assertion that the Roman-era diaspora was not as pervasive as thought.
Considering Sephardic Jews held on to their identity even after their expulsion from post-Reconquista Spain, and Ashkenazi Jews persisted despite centuries of pogroms, one has always wondered what happened to the Berber, Yemeni and Khazar Jews. It would make sense that some of these, at least, retain their Jewish identities.
Depending on when matrilineal descent was adopted, we could potentially verify, based on mtDNA analysis, whether Sand's hypothesis is right or not. Naturally, regardless of whether the Jewish people are descended from the biblical Jews or not, does not matter: the centuries of persecution have forged a common identity, just as decades of persecution forged Palestinian nationhood.
{"commentId":1797292,"threadId":"264056","contentId":"1486798","authorDomain":"hircus"}
- 1 vote
#1 - Tue May 13, 2008 8:59 PM EDT{"commentId":1797446,"authorDomain":"alkimija"}
It's hard to believe that Le Monde, usually an excellent publication, would give space to a review of this trash.
I'm not Jewish myself, but I don't believe that Israeli Jews all claim to be descendants of the ancient Hebrews, neither do I believe that Israel was/is founded on a purley ethnic base, as the Jewish people worldwide are not so much an ethnicity (except within Israel itself, perhaps) than a shared culture. After all, it is perfectly possible to convert to Judaism and become Jewish. Then there are different sub-cultures depending upon where the Jewish families lived over the years that add to the unique mix that is Judaism.
Calling Jews an 'invented' people is as insulting and preposterous as calling Muslims, Christians, or Hindus 'invented.'
{"commentId":1797446,"threadId":"264056","contentId":"1486798","authorDomain":"alkimija"}
- 1 vote
#2 - Tue May 13, 2008 9:53 PM EDT{"commentId":1799757,"authorDomain":"hircus"}
This is Le Monde Diplomatique, which tends to be to the left of the parent publication Le Monde, which controls only 51% of the stock. They even reviewed 9/11 conspiracy theories in the past! As I said, take it with a grain of salt.
The phrasing is rather unfortunate, but I guess what he's driving at is that in modern times, Jewishness is not an ethnicity, it's a religion/culture. The same thing is actually happening among British Muslims -- they identify themselves as either Muslim first and British second, or vice versa, and their ethnic identity third. I don't speak Hebrew so I can't translate the original title -- I'd think there's a (intentional?) mistranslation into English.
{"commentId":1799757,"threadId":"264056","contentId":"1486798","authorDomain":"hircus"}
{"canLink":false,"threadId":"264056","isPrivate":false}
You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
Start Tracking
Stop TrackingCOMPANY STUFF:
LEGAL STUFF:
- © 2005-2009 Newsvine, Inc. |
- Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
- Newsvine is a property of
